About Quiz #33

[Matt]

A few months ago, I wrote a multi-question quiz based on the following hand:

Full Tilt Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $2/$4
9 players
Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is Button with Q http://www.notedpokerauthority.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_diamond.gif J http://www.notedpokerauthority.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_diamond.gif
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO folds, Hero raises, SB folds, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls.
Flop: (12.5SB) 7 http://www.notedpokerauthority.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_club.gif 6 http://www.notedpokerauthority.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_heart.gif J http://www.notedpokerauthority.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_heart.gif (6 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 bets, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, Hero calls, 2 folds.
Turn: (7.75BB) 9 http://www.notedpokerauthority.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_diamond.gif (3 players)
MP1 bets, MP2 calls, Hero raises, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.
River: (13.75BB) 2 http://www.notedpokerauthority.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_heart.gif (3 players)
MP1 checks, MP2 bets, Hero folds…

At the time, I thought I had played the hand correctly. Now I'm not so sure. I posted a question about the hand on Ed Miller's website (http://www.notedpokerauthority.com). You can read his comments here (http://www.notedpokerauthority.com/qa/qa-65-limit-holdem-folding-on-the-river-in-a-big-pot.html). I now believe I should have raised the flop. Ed doesn't say it, but I also think folding on the river was a big mistake, even though both players did have me beat.

I don't claim to be an expert. Looking back on some of the other quizzes, I can see some flaws in my logic. I won't delete those posts, but I'll probably revisit them and explain my new answers. Of course, you guys are welcome to share your thoughts as well.

-Matt

[Nima]

I agree with the preflop raise,

I think you played it right though (on the flop). Raising on the flop wont get anyone out, it just makes it better for them to chase their draws (seems like they would have called two bet just as well as one). Your flat call the flop so that you raise the turn and cost the other players two big bets, so they fold their draws....

I dont think you should have folded on the river though.

[Matt]

It's true that raising won't drive out any flush draws (or anyone who may hold 89). However, calling lets weaker draws see the turn cheaply. Getting almost 16-1 from the pot, the three remaining players can correctly call with any of the following hands: overcards, a gutshot straight draw, middle pair, bottom pair, or a jack with a weaker kicker. Raising puts these hands under a great deal of pressure, especially since the original bettor might three-bet.

[Nima]

Thats right but your primary goal is to win the pot.

The other guys wont fold whether you raise or not on the flop.

But a bet and re-raise from you on the turn (costing the other guys 2 big bets) will...