Limit Hold'em Quiz #27

[Matt]

You are on the button with A:hearts:K:hearts:. An early player, a middle player, and the cutoff limp. You raise. The blinds fold and the limpers call. The flop is 5:clubs: J:spades: Q:hearts:. Everyone checks. The turn is the A:diamonds:, giving you top pair and a gutshot straight draw. The limpers check and you bet. The early limper calls, the middle limper folds, and the cutoff check-raises. The pot contains 8.5 big bets. What do you do?

[Nima]

It's either fold or call.

I would be very scared of the check-raise as the guy is in bad position and I always respect raises from bad positions.

Therefore I'm behind right now. If he has a straight already I have three outs, if he doesnt have a straight, he has JQ (two pair) or a set of 5s.

Damn it. I had to fold. I voted for call.

[Matt]

Fold. There are many hands that can beat you. Your opponent may hold A-5, A-J, A-Q, Q-J, or 5-5. You may only have four outs. The pot is laying you 8.5-1, but you are a 10.5-1 underdog to make your straight. You also have to worry that the early limper may three-bet. Another important thing to consider is that you could end up splitting the pot if a ten comes. Remember that straight draws are weakened when you are only using one of your hole cards.

[jhite4058]

this is a very obvious fold so many hands that beat you he could've been slow playing a monster not only that but if you've already showed weakness on the flop by not betting, calling here would be an aweful play, i guess if you had a good read on the player you may try to make a move on him especially if this is an online tournament then circumstances change

[csloce]

Since, I was the button, I should have bet the flop after everyone checked. But since, I gave everyone a free card, I would probably call if my chip stack was strong. Fold otherwise.

[Nima]

I posted this quiz on the FullContactPoker (http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-forum/index.php?showtopic=85688&pid=1684716&st=0&#entry1684716)Forum.... Most people there believed to call too...

I think it's a mistake. You are not getting enough odds to call giving that you are more than likely dominated.

Nima

[Nima]

Csloce, welcome to the forums...

[Matt]

Since, I was the button, I should have bet the flop after everyone checked. But since, I gave everyone a free card, I would probably call if my chip stack was strong. Fold otherwise.

One of the advantages of raising in late position is the opportunity to take a free card on the flop. If you check, you don't have to worry about being check-raised. With that said, I think that betting the flop in this situation is the correct move. You have a gutshot straight draw, two overcards, and a backdoor flush draw. Our hand is fairly strong, so getting check-raised on the flop is not a big deal. If the turn misses us, we can see the river for free if everyone checks again.

[Matt]

I posted this quiz on the FullContactPoker (http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-forum/index.php?showtopic=85688&pid=1684716&st=0&#entry1684716)Forum.... Most people there believed to call too...

I think it's a mistake. You are not getting enough odds to call giving that you are more than likely dominated.

Nima

I checked the forum, and I think most of the posters are dead wrong. They argue that we have hidden outs. For example, if the check-raiser holds QJ, a five or king gives us a better two pair. The problem with this reasoning is that there is another opponent in the hand. If a five comes, giving us a better two pair, it could give the early player trips. If a king comes, we could lose to a straight. If this were a heads-up pot, you could justify a call. With the third player in the hand, you have to fold.

I'm not going to respond on the other forum. I already spend too much time here. :) Feel free to post these thoughts if you want.

[broche]

Hum, I guess I would have called too (what a donkey hu!)

It that particular situation do you respect more the check raise because the raiser is a "normal" player?

Would your play differ if you are raised by a loose agressive players for instance?

thanks