My Attempt at Limit

[notcalebsheridan]

With the recent bill/law being passed, I think I would like to learn limit, as that is the main game at casinos. I've dabbled, with a positive winrate, over about 10,000 hands.

I'm sure I was running hot for many of those hands and not playing well.

The main issues I have with converting a fairly good NL game to a limit game is mainly blind defense and steals..

What % of the time do you raise the blinds? What % of the time do you fold your BB to a steal? SB to a steal?

Also, I have been folding 66 and less, just not knowing how to play them correctly... I'd like a few tips on playing in blind wars and low pocket pairs for the time being.

In the future I'll have lots more questions and start posting hands/sessions. I am going to start at 2/4 with a 200BB bankroll, aiming for a 2bb/100 winrate. For the time being I will be playing short handed games. I may or may not move to FR, i'm not sure yet -opinions on this would also be nice

[Matt]

Barry Tanenbaum has published some very good articles about blind play, although his advice mostly deals with full games. He also has articles on the differences between limit and no-limit hold'em: http://www.cardplayer.com/magazine/author/124?page=1. His style is a little too conservative for my tastes, but he knows more about the game than I do.

As far as stealing goes, a lot depends on your opponents. Against rocks, you can try stealing with marginal hands like heart6 heart7 . You'll have to tighten up quite a bit against most of the players you encounter, especially in shorthanded games. A general rule is to always raise first-in from late position with any hand that you would have played for a single bet. I've shown a profit steal-raising with hands like diamondK club10 . You can set up a PT filter that will track the effectiveness of your steal-raises. I have separate filters for good hands and marginal hands. You can also monitor your blind defense. This is something I have a problem with, so I would refer to Tanenbaum's articles; I need to reread them myself.

I don't have much experience in shorthanded games. Nima can give better advice than I can. I have compiled a list of shorthanded resources: http://blacksburgpoker.com/poker/pokerschool/shorthandedl.php. Weighing the Odds in Hold'em Poker has two great shorthanded chapters. Ed Miller's DVDs also contain some useful information. You're welcome to borrow these if you would like.

Personally, I would start out in full ring games before playing shorthanded. I played at some great nine-handed $2/$4 tables on Full Tilt last night; those games are definitely profitable. Also, 200BB may not be a big enough bankroll for shorthanded play because you will have larger swings in those games.

How you handle pocket pairs depends on the game you're playing in. If the game is loose-passive enough, you can play lots of small pocket pairs, even in early position. In most games, I will only play pairs below sevens in late/middle position if there are a lot of callers before me. I will also steal-raise with these hands. I think I posted a quiz about small pocket pairs, but I haven't responded to it yet. I'll get to that soon.

Hope this helps!

-Matt

[notcalebsheridan]

Matt -

thanks for the reply, I really like Barry's writing and it seems like good help -i'll probably read the majority of them later tonight

I put in $750 at absolute to get the full 100% bonus... I decided to start at 2/4, and if i dropped more than 30 bets, I planned to move down.

Right now i'm up about 40 bets and change + bonus money... So far, I think i've been playing well, although I'm having some troubles value 3-betting on the river (ie, nut flush on a paired board), defending my blinds, and effectively stealing. I happen to agree that full ring is generally better to learn at, however, during the day there were no full fr tables. I plan to move to full ring for atleast 3 weeks before i take a trip to a casino (probably turning stone in the winter)

As far as variance, i'm don't have a huge ego, so i really don't mind dropping limits if i lose 30-60BB's. (esp when flat out earning >$10/hr in bonus/rakeback)

After a few thousand hands i'm going to closely review my PT database and look for any trends that are starting to develop. I'll also be posting a few hands over the weekend -i have about 4-5 so far where i was lost/wondering if i made the right/wrong plays

[Matt]

Caleb,

I've been watching some of the games at Absolute Poker, because I'm considering moving some money over there. The games look a bit rockish. Full Tilt's limit games are probably much more profitable. But as long as you're making money from rakeback and bonuses I would continue playing there. Hopefully the games will soften up as more fish move from other sites.

I would be happy to discuss any hands you've played, as would Nima. I love talking about poker.

Good luck,
Matt

[notcalebsheridan]

I played almost 10,000 hands of limit.

All I can say is that, the edge I have in limit is not great, and without rakeback and bonuses, it's non-existant.

I think i'm between 0 and -0.5BB/100 without RB/bonuses and about 1bb/100 with them... My edge isn't great enough that I want to spend more time playing. I don't feel like I will beat the 5/10+ games anytime soon and therefore would rather play higher NL games where I can make more money while online poker is endangered

However, moving back to NL, i think my game is a lot sharper and i'm not on auto-play mode anymore. So I consider my past 10 days or so at limit a great use of my time. I made a little money, got a nice feel for it and I do enjoy it. I'll definetly be dropping in the limit games to donate about once a week (maybe 1,000 hands a week) while I'm bored of NL or not playing my best game.

[Matt]

Caleb,

Have you tried the limit games at Full Tilt? There's been a new influx of fish since some of the other sites have closed U.S. accounts. From what I've seen and heard, the games at Absolute are still rather tough.

-Matt

[notcalebsheridan]

Caleb,

Have you tried the limit games at Full Tilt? There's been a new influx of fish since some of the other sites have closed U.S. accounts. From what I've seen and heard, the games at Absolute are still rather tough.

-Matt

I'll be dabbling in these shortly. I'm planning on putting in a grand to get the full 50% bonus today/tomorrow. I was going to try clearing these at the $20+2 SNG level. When I get bored of them I'm sure I will make my way to donk off money at the limit games... I'll post hands as I play

Also- the quizzes are helpful matt, although i'm not sure how many people fully utilize and work the problems out. There are probably a handful of lurkers but these will do very well on a seperate page, where it can be more like a real interactive quiz. (maybe some PT-replay style graphics, etc... i can possibly help with these)

[Nima]

I am trying to find a software, or learn how to do it myself to make a page dedicated to Limit Holdem Quizes.

My goal is to have a quiz page for every topic.

If you have any suggestion let me know.


Cheers,
Nima

[Matt]

Also- the quizzes are helpful matt, although i'm not sure how many people fully utilize and work the problems out. There are probably a handful of lurkers but these will do very well on a seperate page, where it can be more like a real interactive quiz. (maybe some PT-replay style graphics, etc... i can possibly help with these)

Thanks Caleb. I'm having trouble coming up with new quizzes. A lot of the ideas I've had have already been covered in the other quizzes. Also, some potential quizzes seem a little too easy and might not be too helpful. I'll try to come up with more soon.

[notcalebsheridan]

- very easy to make image maps
- make check/call/raise buttons that affect a frame, etc
- this could also be done in flash a lot easier, but i do not own it anymore
- here is a 10 minute photoshop file screen dump:

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/6643/niitzt0.gif (http://imageshack.us)

- easy to put in all the card images to the photoshop file, 1 on each layer, move them around etc.
- chips done the same way
- add in players, button, etc etc... probably an hour and a half worth of work overall to set all this up, then making image maps would take ~10 minutes/quiz

Web page area would have to be made with frames:
-one for image/scenario/background info
-one for answer (controlled based on image map)

*this is my take on how you can make these quizzes fairly easily. It's probably not the best way and feel free to use it or not use it. I can send you photoshop file or help you out with this stuff if you want

[Nima]

Frames would definitly do it.

However, frames are one of the worst ways to do this (in terms of search engines and website design). Frames are practically dead (I use frames for the polls on front page though).

I will try to talk to some computer programmers/ web desginers and see what they have to say.

Cheers,
Nima

[Nima]

I found a way to do this. It will be using forms and php.

I'm still learning about it. Hopefuly we will have the quizes up on a page in less than a week.

Cheers,
Thanks to you all.


Nima

[James]

Hi friend, I can still remember the day when I placed my first bet in the online poker. That was the first time when I played any game from my PC. I found it rather different from the one that is played by us in the casino. So I felt that there were many fine adjustments that were required to be made to thrive in the online arena, which I did, and have also succeeded in winning and I am sure in the coming days I will get a bigger bet. So I would suggest that those who think that this switchover from the casino poker to the online poker is an easy thing to do think again. Play only when you are ready to tackle your opponent.


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