Vegas Trip

[Nima]

I will be going to Vegas August 4th, 5th, and 6th. Hopefuly there will be more than enough cash game action around the WSOP.

I will post a full review of Vegas and WSOP if I get a chance to go watch.

I plan to play couple tournaments ($100 or $200 buy in) and $5/$10, or $10/$20 limit cash games.


Cheers,
Nima

[Matt]

I highly recommend the $8/$16 limit game at Bellagio. Last time I played, it was as loose as any $.25/$.50 game I've seen online. I don't know if the competition is always that soft, but the game is definitely worth checking out.

I'll also write some reviews in the near future.

[Nima]

Matt,
What do you think of this article:

http://allvegaspoker.com/room_4.html



Ps. I heared about Wynne from couple people too. Did you ever play there?


Cheers,
Nima

Ps. I reserved a place in downtown area but I'll be traveling to the strip too.

[Matt]

Nima,

I've read mixed reviews of the Bellagio poker room, but I never found the competition to be that tough, even at the $15/$30 level. Granted, I haven't put in that many hours at their tables, and I might have just been lucky to find soft competition. According to that review, the $4/$8 games are tough, but I'm highly skeptical of that claim. There were a few locals in the $4/$8 games I played, but they weren't good players.

I'm sure a few semi-pros play the $8/$16, but you only need two or three fish to make the game profitable--you'll probably find more than that. When I last played that game, there were three other decent players (certainly not professionals). The other six players were extremely weak. You'll run into more pros at the $15/$30 level, plus a few tight-passive players and one or two loose-passives. Still, it's only about as tough as an online $2/$4 game. You should have no problem in a game like that, as long as your bankroll can withstand some swings. Otherwise, I'd stick to the $4/$8 and $8/$16 limits. I don't recommend playing in the $30/$60 games.

That article has some other inaccurate information. I've never seen low-limit Stud or Omaha at the Bellagio. When I was there last week, they were spreading a few $20/$40 stud and $40/$80 Omaha Hi-Lo games. They may have offered lower-limit games in the past, but they seem to have scrapped those to make room for more No-Limit tables. They're also spreading more middle/high-limit tables for Mixed Games and Triple Draw. These games are in high demand among more serious players. Most low-limit players only want to play Hold'em.

The Bellagio, in my opinion, has the best games between $4/$8 and $15/$30. Other casinos that offer those stakes have tougher competition. I've played at the Mirage a few times and found their $10/$20 and $20/$40 games to be very tough. I've read that their $6/$12 game is also tough, but I found that game to be fairly soft. The Wynn also spreads mid-limit Hold'em, but I've never played there. I hear their games are tougher than those at Bellagio, but that might not be true.

Most of the other Vegas poker rooms don't offer games higher than $3/$6 or $4/$8. Bally's, Paris, and the Flamingo all suck. Caesar's Palace has a nice poker room, but I couldn't find a game above $3/$6 when I was there last week. Other the other hand, I've heard good things about their small-stakes No-Limit tournaments and cash games. They also offer $4/$8 Omaha Hi-Lo every now and then.

Things may be different when you're out there. My experience in Vegas is relatively limited, but I suspect you'll find plenty of good action. My advice is to start out at $4/$8 and then move your way up.

I'm eager to hear your trip report. I hope it's a good one!

Good luck,
Matt

[Matt]

Nima,

I just thought of something else. The Venetian supposedly has a large, luxurious poker room. They offer $6/$12, $9/$18, and higher Limit Hold'em games. I have never played there, but I will stop by next time I'm in Vegas. A few people have told me that the Venetian poker room doesn't get much traffic, but I don't know if that's accurate or not. I'm sure there will be plenty of action during the WSOP main event, which will be going while you're there.

-Matt

[Matt]

More on the Bellagio $15/$30 game:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=6490404&page=31&fpart=all&vc=1

There is also some discussion of the Wynn's poker room.

[Nima]

Matt,
thanks for the post. I'll definitly play at the Bellagio game and see how it goes. I need to re-read my holdem books as I haven't played poker for a while now.

But I will definitly write a report about the trip and post it here.

Cheers,
Nima

[Matt]

Nima:

Re-read Small-Stakes Hold'em, study the hand quizzes, and you should be fine. That book alone will help you prepare for just about any game between $4/$8 and $15/$30, maybe even higher.

To Nima and anyone else who is interested:

I've been browsing through the twoplustwo forums. Almost everyone is raving about the Bellagio and the Wynn. I wish I had played only $8/$16 and $15/$30 when I was in Vegas instead of spending most of my time at Caesar's Palace. I was too lazy to walk across the street and wait for a table at Bellagio during the peak hours. My biggest complaint about the Bellagio is that it can take forever to get a seat.

I might as well comment further on Bellagio's $30/$60 game. $30/$60 is certainly tougher than the lower-limit games, but there are still plenty of bad players. Unfortunately, the bad players at that limit tend to be maniacs. I saw several hands with five players going to the flop for three bets each. Oddly enough, some of them played surprisingly well after the flop. Still, very few players can make a consistent profit by playing so recklessly.

Wild games can be profitable for a good player if his/her bankroll is large enough to withstand the swings. Otherwise, the bad beats can cripple you. This happened to me when some dingleberry cracked my pocket queens with K-5 (he caught a third five on the river). I would much rather play in a game with loose-passive players than maniacs.

Anyway, my point is that there are lots of good games to choose from in Vegas. In fact, I think that live games tend to be softer than online games. Small-stakes players can make a good profit just playing $2-$4 Limit or $1-$2 No-Limit. Caesar's Palace in Las Vegas is a great place to find these games. I highly recommend their cardroom to any beginning players who may be reading this. Please don't think of this thread as just a conversation between me and Nima.

Good luck,
Matt

[Nima]

Thanks again Matt,

When was the best time to play in Bellagio?


Also, I'm trying to put a list together on which casinos to play poker at (part of my trip planner). So far I have Wynne, and Bellagio on the list. Where else do you recommend?

I'll definitly go to other casinos too, to check them out. But I was talking about playing serious poker.

Cheers,
Nima


Ps. I am also putting a page together on where to find the prices for Vegas trips and what to look for. I will ask for you to review it once I'm done.

[Matt]

I recommend the following casinos, depending on what type of game you're looking for:

Caesar's Palace: I think Caesar's is the best place for low-limit players, especially if you're looking to play No-Limit. On my last trip, they had at least six $1/$2 NL tables running at a time. The room is large, so they'll open up more of these tables if there is enough demand for them. They also offer higher-stakes NL games--e.g., $2/$5, $5/$10, and $10/$20. I have heard that the $1/$2 and $2/$5 games are soft. I can't comment on the others. They have at least two multi-table tournaments every day, one around noon and another in the evening. I think the buy-in is $120, with a $100 re-buy or add-on (I don't remember which). Top prize is probably a few thousands dollars. You probably won't find as many limit games at Caesar's. I only saw two $3/$6 games going. If you're lucky, you may find a $4/$8 Omaha Hi-Lo game. They even offer $3/$6 mixed games every now and then. According to the dealers, these games are all soft. It's probably worth visiting the Caesar's poker room even if you play higher-stakes games. It's a beautiful room, with table-side food service and several attractive waitresses and massage girls. You may also find a $6/$12 game on a good night.

The Mirage: Action at the Mirage seems to have dried up a bit. I don't recommend their middle-limit games ($10/$20, $20/$40, and sometimes $40/$80). It's a good place to play $3/$6 if you can't find a game at Caesar's. They also offer $5/$10 Omaha Hi-Lo and $1-$5 Stud, but I don't know how tough these games are. I like their $6/$12 game, although some people think it's a bit tough. It was super-soft when I last played there (back in April). Their limit games are often played with a "kill." In these games, the stakes double if someone wins two pots in a row. Whoever wins the two pots has to post a double-sized blind (the "kill"). I don't care for this structure. The Mirage has one of the older poker rooms in Vegas, so it's not as nice as Caesar's or Bellagio. I still think it's worth visiting, though.

The Bellagio: As I've said, this is my favorite place to play mid-limit poker. It can get a little crowded, but the action is great. Most of their cocktail waitresses are hot, which is a nice plus. It's also cool to see the top pros playing in the "big game," which is located in a glass room on the back wall (next to the $4/$8 tables!). I've seen Doyle Brunson, Chip Reese, Sam Farha, Gus Hansen, John Juanda, and other big names there. Daniel Negreanu, Barry Greenstein, and Jennifer Harman also play there regularly.

I don't know much about the other high-quality poker rooms in Vegas. I've heard good things about The Wynn and The Venetian. I plan on visiting those casinos on my next trip.

I don't much care for the following casinos' poker rooms:

The Flamingo: My least favorite place in Vegas. Their room is small and unattractive. They offer soft $2/$4 and $4/$8 games, but that's about it. Their $4/$8 game is weirdly structured. The blinds are $1 and $2 each, but if I remember correctly, you still have to come in for $4. If you want to raise, you have to make it $6; a three-bet is $10, a four-bet is $14, and so on. This betting structure really screws up the pots, making them hard to count and smaller than they should be. You wouldn't be missing anything if you skipped the Flamingo entirely.

Bally's and Paris: I keep getting their cardrooms mixed up. One of them is really nice (Bally's, I think), but the other one is placed awkwardly in the middle of the casino floor. They each offer $2/$4 and $3/$6, as well as $1/$2 No-Limit. You probably won't find any games higher than that. You'll also find low buy-in tournaments (around $50 dollars). I don't know how these tournaments are structured, but they probably resemble online Sit-N-Go's. If you're looking to play $2/$4 Limit Hold'em (the lowest limit you'll find in Vegas), then check out one of these cardrooms. Otherwise, I would stay away.

Of course, a lot depends on when you're playing. Things may be totally different during Nima's trip. I suspect the games will be good just about anywhere. Time of day is important too. Naturally, there will be more games going in the evening. This means you'll probably have to wait a while for a seat, especially at a casino as popular as the Bellagio. At the same time, the games will probably be looser and more profitable, thanks to the magic of alcohol. The games are also good during the day. The best game I ever played in ($8/$16 at Bellagio) was going in the early afternoon. You can find a good game around the clock, especially this time of year. Enjoy the poker boom while it lasts!

That's pretty much the extent of my experience with Vegas poker rooms. Hopefully, Nima will have more information after his trip.

Good luck,
Matt

[Nima]

In very short:

I played my first game in $2/$4 limit in Plaza Hotel and Casino and lost $60. ( I expected that after not playing for four months at all).

Then I played the $4/$8 game in Bellagio while on waiting list ofr $8/$16. I lost $50 there.

Then I played the $8/$16 Bellagio game and as Matt has said, its a dream come true. I made $450 in less than 3 hours and left.


We'll see how today goes.


Look forward for a rich Vegas Repor comming after I come back.

Cheers,
Nima

[Nima]

Here is a more detailed Vegas Report:

First, tips for travellers:

1- Get a room on the strip. Well worth the extra money (you'll be paying twice that extra money on Taxi)

2- Wana play poker? Best actions are in Bellagio and Wynne. They tend to be more high limits, but they still have $1/$2 NL (or $1/$3 NL in some places).

3- Bellagio offers poker room rates for $149 a night during week and $219 for Friday and Saturdays. Wynns has $120 room during the week with poker discount (typically $300 a night). I dont know their weekend price. Call and ask.

4- Get your hotel rooms directly from the hotel. It's always cheaper and you are sure you have the rooms once you get to Las Vegas.

5- If you are going as vacation, go as a vacation and play poker on the side. Don't play 24/7, cause you will be missing out alot.

6- If you are going as poker trip to gamble the whole time, don't go anywhere other than Bellagio and Wynne.



Notes:

Wynne attracts alot more local than Bellagio during the week days. That is because they have their vallery parking right beside the poker room which makes it much easier for locals to go to rather than driving in the strip traffic. While you are there you can check out the Ferrari showroom at Wynne too.

Paris's poker room sucks. It's in the middle of the casino floor with ropes around it. It's like they ran out of space. Also, the game is not easy to beat.

MGM Grand's poker room was fine. I played $6/$12 and won couple hundred fairly easy. However they dont always offer that high limits. Their typical high limit is $4/$8 limit or - of course- $1/$3 No limit.

New York New York, doesnt have a poker room. :shock: - Still behind time

Luxor was ok. I didnt play there myself. Seemed like they had some cheaper tournaments to play at, however alot of college kids ( I prefer to play against the tourists rather than new college kid poker players).

Casinos in downtown attract most of the locals. Besides there are not any nice poker rooms there anyways, so stay away from those unless you are just visiting.



My next trip will be a longer Poker Only trip. That will hopefuly be in Thanksgiving holidays.

Cheers,
Nima

[Nima]

I made a page in the main website on Vegas Poker Room Reviews:


http://blacksburgpoker.com/poker/reviews/vegas-poker.php


Let me know what you think.

Nima

[Matt]

The link doesn't work, but you can get to the reviews from the main page. My only complaint is that you didn't mention the Bellagio.

[Nima]

I know i know.

It's not done yet.

I will get it done today

Cheers,
Nima

[Matt]

Haha, I knew you wouldn't forget the Bellagio. Feel free to use any of my comments.